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Old Oct 06, 2006, 12:28 AM // 00:28   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmndidjit
“Balance” only comes into play in PvE when something is way out proportion, like the original 55 monk. While pet controls would make a lot of PvE easier and far more enjoyable, I doubt they would break the PvE game like the 55 monk did. Unfortunately, being able to control and direct your pet more easily in PvP would have a far greater effect on the game, and PvP balance trumps PvE in this game every time. If we are given pet controls, it would most likely come with some severe nerfing of the pet.
I very much agree with you here, however that being said pets are not really much part of high level gvg as it is, perhaps a simple "return" comand could be put in, as not only would this help in preventing your pet running away after a target uncontrollably but it could be used as a slowly but decent way to get them to change targets better than the wait afew minutes current one

I do not think this simple command would put out of balance the skills which have been buffed and beyond to account for the lack of brains, but it is quite hard to tell.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 01:03 AM // 01:03   #42
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How are pets overpowered exactly?

I mean,HA/GvG certainly arent riddled with nothing but Beastmastery builds.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 01:36 AM // 01:36   #43
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To me pets in their current form take the role of being an addition to something else you focus in, like the thumper for instance, where you have to give 2/3rds your bar up for them but the 1/3 you do is very important.

Running high beast still allows you room for other weapon options and such, which say, running an axe does not (i.e nobody runs evis with hammer bash in a switch out) This to me makes them something different than just another warrior added to the team.

If pet Ai is buffed to very advanced levels, where it is possible to spike and such with them i see them becoming something that you take instead of that warrior or whatever, which i think would take the meaning away from what they are now.

If what i have just said makes no sense and is completly flawed, please excuse as i have been without sleep for 25 hours study for tests tomorrow ftl.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44   #44
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Originally Posted by lightblade
lol...you people should try to train your dog to do stuff...like using the toilet...

Then you'll see how hard it REALLY is to control pet. GW on the otherhand, is very realistic on this.
lol.. you should try a PuG, then you'll see how really hard it can be to control realy humans... controlling a pet is nothing compared to that...
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 01:57 AM // 01:57   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theus
How are pets overpowered exactly?

I mean,HA/GvG certainly arent riddled with nothing but Beastmastery builds.
IWAY? Though not a real beasmaster build, it does show some of the problems having 2x party members can cause.

Pets aren't overpowered. In fact ANet has done a lot to buff them over the last year and a half (increased armor and damage as well as several skill buffs.) Giving only one or two basic commands would help, but would also probably cause a lot of people to scream for even better control. The problem with pets in every game I have played is that you are doubling the hit points of the team with little trade off. The current trade off in GW is 1-2 slots in a very limited skill bar and having to put up with minor control of your pet. I use Warrior and Ranger builds that use pets, I don't like it any better than anyone else. I just don't put a lot of faith in any statement from an ANet employee besides Izzy. When the great and powerful Izzy says he's worked out the balance issues, we'll see something. Until then, I just keep clicking my heels together and wishing.

Last edited by dmndidjit; Oct 06, 2006 at 02:07 AM // 02:07..
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35   #46
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Originally Posted by Curse You
Can you take your hero into Random Arenas? No. Can you bring your hero into GvG? No. Can you use your heroes in anything (either than hero battles) that is PvP? No.
I'm only concerned with PvE these days. Thankfully, ANet is moving away from the fantasy that PvP and PvE must be identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
They have skills that deal high amounts of damage (80 damage anyone?), can be given 15 damage reduction, and ressurect in about 1 second. If your heroes were like that you wouldn't need to even fight, your heroes would kill almost anything.
Why do people fixate on a *SINGLE* skill, Enraged Lunge? Also, I think that skill *is* over powered, and should be weakened a bit. Other pet attack skills are very comparable with other professions' attack skills.

I can't give my pet absorption runes, or a shield, or armor; also, Call of Protection (the skill in question) is Prophecies-only, which doesn;t do Factions and Nightfall players any good.

As for the res: My pet can't be raised by a normal Monk Skill or Res Signet, so I end up havign to carry *TWO* resurrect skills if I take my pet.

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Originally Posted by Curse You
Now about the idea of being able to send your pets using the flag system. I am strongly against the idea. When you die, you can still command with the flags. This means you could then send your pet all over the place while you lie there dead.
I don;t think the flags and commands should work for Heroes when I'm dead. How in the heck am I directing Heroes when I'm a corpse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
As it stands, the pets' poor controls balances out their otherwise overpowered abilities.
If pets are over-powered, why haven;t we seen Beastmasters dominate in PvP? *Any* PvP? And they're rarer than hen's teeth in PvE, too. Ever see a PuG spamming "GLF Beastmaster?" I haven't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
I guess you've never played as a beast master. Once you get to 16 Beast Mastery, the amount of time your skills are disabled for gets reduced greatly.
I *only* play my ranger as a Beastmaster, devoting five of 8 skills and 12 attribute points to Beast Mastery. I do this not because it is necessarily powerful, but because it is challenging. No, I don't personally find Blackout much of a problem -- but then, I work hard at making sure Fluffy doesn't die.

Pets are very useful, and I plan to continue using my pet whether or not ANet adds pet controls. On the other hand, I do not see why a massive buff to henchmen (Heroes) can not also provide a small buff to Beastmasters, one of the rarest builds in the game.

No, B/P does not count as a Beastmaster.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 04:59 AM // 04:59   #47
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Originally Posted by Curse You
and ressurect in about 1 second.
I guess you've never played as a beast master. Once you get to 16 Beast Mastery, the amount of time your skills are disabled for gets reduced greatly.
16 bm means 3 second recharge, with a 1 second cast comfort for a total of, you guessed it, 4 seconds.

now dont get me wrong, 4 seconds is fast, but its not as powerful as, lets say, light of dwayna.

but then again, it only counts if u have 16 in bm, which pretty much means your other attribs are spead thin.

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Old Oct 06, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote
If pets are over-powered, why haven;t we seen Beastmasters dominate in PvP? *Any* PvP? And they're rarer than hen's teeth in PvE, too. Ever see a PuG spamming "GLF Beastmaster?" I haven't.
I didn't say they're overpwered. In fact, I said that they are balanced BECAUSE they have a slow reaction to commands. They are so balanced in fact, that people don't want to use them in PvP because they don't get an advantage.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 06:12 AM // 06:12   #49
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/signed for putting in pet controls along with the Hero controls.

Hmm a cute addition would be to have pets able to pick up loot for ya lol- dont think it will happen here. Alternatively maybe minipets can fulfil this role so that they are of some use other than some decorative dolls/toys.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 10:12 AM // 10:12   #50
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/not signed

Rangers may hate me for this, but do you really think a pet, which does NOT take a party slot, does not take drops, should be as valuable as a hero?

- Xeeron
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 12:46 PM // 12:46   #51
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Originally Posted by Xeeron
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Rangers may hate me for this, but do you really think a pet, which does NOT take a party slot, does not take drops, should be as valuable as a hero?

- Xeeron
Last time I checked we were destined to get a Mesmer Hero.You know..an AI based counter?Yeah.Thats clearly weaker than a pet you have the ability to control.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeeron
/not signed

Rangers may hate me for this, but do you really think a pet, which does NOT take a party slot, does not take drops, should be as valuable as a hero?
Did you actually *read* my original post?

I am not asking for super pets. I am asking for simple control, just like I'd have of any well-trained animal. Just a simple ability to say "stay" and "attack" and "come here".

I still won't be able to put armor on my pets (other than spells, which people get top, and I need to carry separate skills for party members and my pet).

I still won't be able to give my pet weapons.

I still won't be able to add runes to my pet.

Explain how a few very simple controls would make pets over-powered.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:09 PM // 15:09   #53
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I think most people could be satisfied with a few simple controls.
Two modes: Passive and Aggressive.

In Passive mode the pet doesn't do anything but follow you around.
If set on Passive when it's further away from you, it will abandon everything it was doing up to that point
and proceed to follow you around.
In Aggressive mode the pet would be like it is now.

Just add two small buttons somewhere with which to change the Mode, and that's it.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:19 PM // 15:19   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Former Ruling
Koss doesn't have an elite that costs 5 energy and does +80 dmg every 5 secs, and doesn't have a shout that make him have -15 dmg reduction all the time for 5 energy every 2 minutes or so, or a shout that makes him move AND attack 25% that can be kept up all the time for 10 energy every 30 secs. He also cant be rezzed with a 1 sec cast time resurrection spell that gives him 61% health back on rez.
Cough...Koss has is own skill bar, he doesn't suck up all your skills just to have a functioning build. Bow rangers' weapons switch targets immediately. Warrior's weapons switch targets immediately. Why can't the beastmaster's weapon, the pet, switch? We need some control over our own weapons. I don't see the warrior's axe getting DP at all.

Things that were already mentioned pets need:
- Movement control
- Target control/pulling
- Effects monitor
- /beg....beastmaster weapons!

My ranger runs 16 Beastmastery, 13 Expertise, ~4 Wild Survival. I use an insightful Bo Staff for the looks and energy - can we get a staff, a wand, a whip, bow - I don't care, something that affects our beastmaster abilities? Or even something that deals max damage with a req in Beastmastery?
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 03:39 PM // 15:39   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shantel Span
...can we get a staff, a wand, a whip, bow - I don't care, something that affects our beastmaster abilities? Or even something that deals max damage with a req in Beastmastery?
Lordy, have I wished for such items. Every other class has weapons and items tied to *all* of their attributes, even when it makes no sense (Phi's Wisdom, anyone?) Rangers can *only* have items tied to *one* attribute, Marksmanship.

I was hoping for even the tiniest bit of Ranger love from ANet in Nightfall. Sadly, we get four very weak Beatsmastery skills (admitedly some other skills are good, tho), no new weapons, no pet controls...

...sigh. Where's the love for my lizard?
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 04:27 PM // 16:27   #56
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I'm really happy to see so much support for better pet controls here. I know Anet watches the boards closely. Hopefully they'll take note and give us what we're asking for eventually.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 04:41 PM // 16:41   #57
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Oh yes- just what I was going to post- why don't we have any type of weapon that uses/enhances beast mastery? I use an earth staff for the extra energy, so my damage is negligible, which is ok, because Miss Kitty is doing my dirty work. But how nice would it be to have a max damage staff with 15 energy?
Where are the mods for +1 BM while enchanted, etc?
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 04:55 PM // 16:55   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote
I don't even have an indicator telling me that Call of Protection is wearing off... I have to GUESS.
You don't have to guess for CoP. If the skill is lit up, it's not in effect. I remember the first time I used CoP, I thought there was a bug because the skill took so long to light up again--two minutes, actually. I've also noticed that if you run into opponents that strip conditions/effects/whatever, the skill can light up very quickly. Get what I'm saying?

Unfortunately, that's not true for ALL pet skills. I'd like to know if my pet has performed the last attack I pressed without having to watch. For example, if I press Feral Lunge, the skill should stay dark until the pet has completed the attack or I press another pet attack.

I agree that pets need some kind of rudimentary control. Could be as simple as what I suggested above, combined with the henchie go/stay flag. To me, the current implementation of pets is a half-assed, inadequate implementation. It's time for Anet to finish the job.
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33   #59
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I think the main things that we are looking for with pet upgrades are:-
  1. Pet Control Panel - Hero Style
    Just like the Hero control panel, without skills and energy etc.

  2. General Pet Action - Faster Responses
    Take out the delay of your pet realising you're attacking someone else.

  3. Flagging - Movement Control
    Pet Control by flagging on the radar.

  4. Pet Status - Attack Indications
    Just a simple "Pet Attack Failed" appearing above my head would be enough for me.

  5. Pet Status - Hex Identification
    This is actually to do with the pet control panel, thinking back to the Hero panel.
GAHHHH what is with that invading little 1 behind the 2?
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Old Oct 06, 2006, 05:52 PM // 17:52   #60
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/signed many times.

I also think we should be able to make our tigers fly.
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